Advice on woodstoves
 

I was thinking about buying an oldstyle woodstove. Any advice the folks at GIM can give me?

I also had the thought of buying woodstoves in poor to semi good condition for 50-100 bucks, fixing them up and selling for 200-300.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

If you plan on heating with it, and have access to plenty of free seasoned firewood, then spend the money and get a clean-burning energy-efficient stove - this investment will pay dividends in money saved and improved quality of life. I have a Quadrafire stove that boasts virtual zero emissions (i.e. once hot there is no visable smoke produced) and 70-80% efficiency.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

it would be nice to know your usage. IE....garage....living room....etc.

I grew up on "old" style wood stoves...as follows are some comments

they have hot surfaces, so they need clearances, small children are at risk etc

they tend to be dirty in the house....some smoke residue...ash dust..etc..most old style stoves arnt perfectly sealed

they need to be on a fireproof surface because you will get some sparks out the door when you load it or take out ashes

you would need to add some combustion air and i would make sure and have a carbon monoxide detector around

they are radient heat so they make one room hotter heck...the rest are progressively less heated

you definitely want one that has a flue that draws good

the newer you get on wood stoves the more they will have delt with the above issues...

IE ...some have shields...some have very sealed construction...etc

Bigger doors are nice ..easier to get wood in when the fire is burning

just some thoughts from my childhood

to get to a high effiiecency stove like the quadrafire post above those stoves are fantastic and address all the "old" stove issues BUT require ac power of course the old stoves were ineffiecent as heck and all they require is wood

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Most people think those old wood cookers last forever, but the heat does eat at the iron little by little. Not rusting, the metal just thins. Then you get pits in the top. The water box often rusts out too. Then you've got the additional hassle if it was porcelain coated. Welding up cast iron isn't the easiest thing in the world to do, and if you cop out and use nickel rod instead of a cast iron one (which most people do), the different heating and expansion rates over time will just bring back any cracks you fixed. Frankly, I'd rather stick weld Aluminium than cast iron.

Ima ... damn that's gorgeous.

It also helps if you can find an old Grandma who used one to tell you the tricks, like waxing the cooking surface and such. There's a lot about them that doesn't make it into the manuals.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Two issues to keep in mind when looking at newer wood stoves:

1: As mentioned above, does it require electricity? If so, are you OK with that? I will only have a wood stove that will work when the power is out. To each his own.

2: Ash removal. With most stoves, you have to let the fire die down and then shovel out the fire box. Many older stoves and maybe a few new ones had the logs sit on shaker grates. You shake the ashes through and then you can remove them through a lower door while the fire is still blazing in the firebox.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

e careful with old stoves - I had to break up an old Rayburn at my BO place, it was rusted out. Ignored the big cloud of insulation until I read the label on the inside of the oven dooor once I'd dipped it in acid to take off the rust - Rayburn Stove and Asbestos Co.
Saved some of the stuff and sent it off to the guy we use for anaylsis - he said "Yep, it's Tremolite, the worst type!"
I'd been breathing in a cloud of it for a few days and I smoke like a train -ah well, we all have to die sometime!

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

As has been said we need a lot more info about what you plan to do with it before any worthwhile advice can be given.
What exactly does "oldstyle" mean to you?
Are you heating your shop, or your townhouse?

My second income is "buy sell trade" of anything.
Woodstoves sell mostly now when it starts to get cold.
You can buy the best in the spring & summer.
But they take up a lot of room... you can't stack them. So all your floor space is gone.
They are heavy & dirty.
Like any other catagory, you make your money when you buy.. you collect it when you sell.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

I like my stove and would recommend it.

http://www.lopistoves.com/product_gu...x?id=211#Specs

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Speaking strictly of heating ...........

I have a pair of Quadrafire inserts, which are slick indeed.

Physical layout first;

The house is two stories, bottom story is a "daylight basement"

Although in actuality a living space, family room, bedroom,

Bath, garage and furnace room.

Concrete block faced with brick.

The upstairs is typical wood framing with doug fir bevel siding.

So there is this 3' x 14' brick chimney which runs through both floors,

With a fireplace on each, with the Quads on each.

They take 20" cordwood with ease.

And once you get all that masonry heated up,

It is a couple splits of cordwood an hour into one insert only

Unless the weather gets really crappy.

Then you use both.

The furnace room has an old fashioned wood burning furnace,

Perfectly functional, except I never use it, because the inserts

Are so effective.


scyth

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

If insurance is a concern, you can't really go with an old one. If you want it in your house, they'll want it new, installed by a professional, with a new chimney also installed by a professional. Both those things will need to have an approval stamp of some safety rating company on it.

That also means that buying an old one, fixed up or not, isn't going to work for most people.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Excellent point Ash, insurers do want new approved stoves and installation. If something happens and there is an old unapproved woodstove in your house, bye bye insurance.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

I agree 100% Ash_Williams. Another thing that has to be considered is that older stoves have a lower efficiency rating than newer ones. So you burn more wood and get less heat. I'm in the process of building my house and will have a wood stove in it. It's expensive (but you get what you pay for) but I'm getting a Jotul F 3 CB. http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulu.../Jotul-F-3-CB/

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

You will want to get a New one and have it installed professionally due to Insurance concerns.

They can heat like nothing else. Hot Dry Heat Now.

I luved em in a cabin but in a house I'd want a newer style with an electric blower.

E-A

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Don't forget you can get 30% of your cost back as a tax credit if you buy an efficient stove. The credit also includes installation and parts (i.e. hearth pad, pipe ect.). Just make sure that the stove qualifies.

I recently made the jump and went with the Magnolia from U.S. Stove. The stove goes in tomorrow.

Firewood I think is the funnest part. Right now I have been buying. I have only accumulated about 4.5 face cords and it's about 95% Ash and 5% Oak.

Next summer I plan on scrounging wood like crazy to cut the cost.


:biggrin:

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

How much did you pay for the Magnolia?
Where did you buy it from?

We have a small boxwood stove that we had planned to put in the 'barnpartment' we will be living in but have toyed with the idea of getting a better more efficient stove especially with the tax credit available.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

I picked it up at Tractor Supply for $849 on sale (regularly $899).

Tractor Supply

It's a bit more in the U.S. Stove listing...

U.S. Stove



:s1:

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Negative 1 are you sure that woodstoves qualify for the tax credit? They didn't last year.

Edit: It looks like they might - IRC 25C(d)(3) as amended by Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 - I'm reading right now.

Sounds like not yet certain based on their website: http://www.usstove.com/TaxWelcome.php

The tax code is very fluid right now.

I read the link on the mfg. page to the IRS notice - it sounds like as long as efficiency rating is 75% or more it qualifies. It also says only labor paid for installation is includable for the credit.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Installed a Napoleon 1400 this fall.

It is a high efficiency model that sells for around $2000 with a squirrel cage blower and tax. I bought it used for $250 and bought/installed new bricks and gaskets set which was $150.

It is installed in the basement of a 2 story house. I keep the furnace fan running to circulate the warm air and it has been working fine except for one incident. I closed off too many registers in the basement to force more heat upstairs. Unfortunately, this created a negative pressure in the basement causing smoke to seep out of the stove very slowly, unnoticabley, except for the smell. The quick remedy was to reopen some of the basement registers to replace the air that was being sucked up by the fan. No problems since.

In Ontario, once the stove is installed (personally or by pro), you require a WETT inspection which verifies the method and integrity of the install. With the WETT, insurance increases are minimal.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Thanks,that is where we saw it as well.:emotions16:

I believe the Magnolia is listed as getting the tax credit.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Yup it qualifies...

Magnolia

If you bought one last year you still may be able to get the credit.


:s1:

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Thanks

Mine is four years old so I'm sort of out of luck. I did put in a new storm door that I intend on taking the credit on.

I fired it up last Saturday for the first time this year. It wasn't really cold enough out so it overheated the house (had to open some windows) but this time of year I start to get a little antsy for a wood fire.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Tecumseh,
Do you use it as your main heat source? What wood do you like best?

I am planning to try to get by using the furnace as little as possible this winter. I know that by December I should have 9 or 10 face cords stacked in strategic spots around the yard. I am working on a Oak deal for $45 per face cord. That Oak is some heavy stuff!

:s1:

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Found this on Craigslist,it is not pretty by any means but from a quick read the stoves seem to be pretty good and keep a fire for a long time.We do not need zero clearance but still.
The price of good stove pipe is pretty shocking so that is an added bonus too.

http://images.craigslist.org/3ka3o63...5530531aa9.jpg

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Well the install is done. Here�s a pic of my Magnolia�

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/stove.JPG

Sorry the walls are bare and ugly in paint prep.

Oz,
Be careful with used stoves because if you need to replace any parts it can become costly real fast.


:s1:

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Really nice ... I would say sweet if I was 15 years younger.

Here's mine in my messy house blarring away a couple years ago.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...y/DSC00314.jpg

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Hahah don't show that picture to your insurance company! I think Special Kitty would qualify as a "combustible".

The Magnolia looks nice. What I did for looks was to put 1/2" ceramic tile as the floor and on the walls. It has the added benefit of holding heat. I can run the stove pretty hot for 4 hours, then it burns it's self out (at which point I'm often asleep) but the tiles in the room are all warm which results in my sleeping area in the next room staying comfortably warm for the rest of the night.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Sorry negative 1 - I lost track of this thread.
It is not my primary heat source - I have a Regency H2100 Hearth heater. I burn between 2 and 3 cords a year - I would burn more but I work 60-70 hours a week from late Jan to mid April so I am not around to keep it burning.
My experience has been that the type of wood is not quite as critical with a wood burning stove compared to an open fireplace. I have gotten very good heat out of slabwood from local lumber mills - granted the slabwood has always been mixed hard woods.
I burn mostly soft maple as that is what has been most available - a lot of silver maples around here and they tend to drop big limbs in any decent storm. I have gotten good heat from soft maple and decent burn times.
I've gotten really good hot fires from oak, osage orange and I think black locust (it was some kind of locust that my father in law said was good for fence posts) but those woods are not as accessible to me.
I burned some kind of elm once (might be a norweigian elm) and that was horrible - very little heat from that fire. That is the only wood that I have burned and not liked. I have had some poplar that needed quite a while to dry out (still steamed and spit over a year after splitting).

Re: Advice on woodstoves and stuff
 

Have a Grampa bear fisher that is about 20 years old,whoops closer to 30. Heating bill last year was about $102.00 for gas service @ $17.00 dollars a month to be hooked up.They sent me a letter that my meter must be defective, and that a new one was going to be installed, COSTING ME around $400.00.Am 71 and have learned since being on this site, no son of GIM is going to take that crapola with out a fight. Called them up, asked about the letter, bla bla bla, then asked the LEGAL name of the Company CEO..Why does I want the name? Because young lady, I burned firewood and will be. If my bill is in the same ball park, I am going to sue your CEO for all of my expenses and see if a good lawyer can't tag another million on for good measure. The next day, EARLY, there was a guy with channel locks opening my meter.He let some gas escape, watched the dials and said nothing wrong with the meter..Have had the stove going since Sept 29. No gas used yet, only about $11.00 of actual gas in the last season...Going after a CC Company.Bastards jacked me to 29.0 percent. Then due to a major SCREW UP on my part, missed two payments..Made up one, and asked about lowering the rate.......Yo Yo dummy, says your responsibility, you signed the papers. I said, But, I stopped using the card when notified of screwing.. Well that don't count.Neither does greed.I am going after an interest reduction..I want five percent for a year, then we can discuss this again....The alternative is that they get no interest, no payment, and directions where to go. I may just get a lawyer to advise me on pulling the plug on virtually all my bills. :36_1_28:

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

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Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

I am having my wood stove delivered and installed tomorrow. One more truck load will give me over two cords of seasoned oak. I built a kindling box and filled it today.
Of course, as many of you know, I am not yet living in the house. But winter is right around the corner.
The wood stove will be my primary heat source. I will be heating about 650sf with it. The stove I got is the smallest high efficiency stove I could find. It will burn at about 80% efficiency. I am putting a damper in the vent pipe, this will keep another 10% of the heat in the house.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Jack get a small fan to circulate the air past the stove. Trust me it will increase the stoves efficiency. You will notice the area near the stove may be 80 degrees while another room is only 74 degrees or less.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

FWIW, there is a really great rod for welding cast iron from Cronatron Welding, Certanium 8899. No need to preheat anything but the thinnest sections. Almost anyone can weld cast with that, but stove iron is a very different proposition. Due to the high phosphorus content of the iron, it tends to foam/bubble up when you hit it with the arc.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...+770342+821213 ,, get one and you will use less wood and it will be hotter . I HAVE USED this for 2 years and it works great

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Is your woodstove the kind with a catalyst? I've been wondering how good they are. Does the manufacturer recommend the damper? I know they hold some heat in but it might cause more creosote and might not be compatible with a catalyst if you have one.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Hoarder I have had one with a catalyst and will never have one again, but then there are no restrictions where I am.

Just one more issue that has to be dealt with. I have a Large Quadrafire and out of all the stoves I've used and that is plenty. It is far and away the best.

Get a big one it will hold the coals and heat much longer you won't be sorry.

Re: Advice on woodstoves
 

Buy a new one for the reasons stated above. Don't go by looks, stay away from cast iron they are really difficult to repair.

Most of what I have to say here is common sense and well known by people that use wood for heat so this is for those that have never used a wood stove much or plan to use one at the bug out spot.
I have used lots of different stoves over the years and these are some of the things that I find work for me.

I have a very well insulated house that was built with a wood stove in mind. There is a heating vent at the top of the vaulted ceiling above the stove and a ceiling fan to circulate the heat if needed. I have installed a reverse fan in the duct to push it through out the house if I want. My stove also has an attached blower which I use more than the ceiling fan.

I have a stove that is larger than is needed for the square footage this allows for a longer burn time.
The one I have is a quadrafire and it takes 20 inch logs. It has fire bricks in it to hold the heat longer.

I have found that the key to using a wood stove is to just keep it warm all the time. Not hot.


With a small stove the tendency is to build a hot fire to warm the place up because it's cold damnit.

Then the stove burns out while you are not paying attention and has to be heated up again.

Heating and cooling is hard on the cast irons stoves and one of the reasons I don't like them as much.

Wood stoves will get hot really easy and they do not cool down fast. You obviously can't just turn it off if it's running you out of the room.
Once it's hot it will stay hot for a long time.

With a small stove you have a much shorter burn time so it will have to be stocked every 8 hours minimum.

The larger stove allows for 12-15 hours.

Waking up to a cold stove sucks.

I just build up a good bed of coals before bed time and shove a whole unsplit round in and then shut the damper all the way and it will smolder and stay warm all night long. When I get up I open the vent and it will burst into flame, warm up and be ready for another round if I am going to leave or a few split pieces if I am going to be around to tend it.

You want to have a straight stove pipe for easy cleaning which you should always keep a close eye on.
If the pipe has an angle it is difficult to clean and the creosote may tend to build up, then you stand the chance of a chimney fire which you do not want.

If you do have a chimney fire open the door and throw a small cup of water in and close the door then call the fire dept.
A small cup as in just one cup, that is all that is needed if it is just a small chimney fire. If the ceiling and roof are involved more water in the stove will not help.
It is a little hard on the glass in the door.
This may be one reason TNAndy will have no glass in his stoves.
Water expands something like 1600 times in volume when it turns to steam so it doesn't take much.
The water will turn to steam this cools the fire and robs it of oxygen.

One chimney fire and you will pay attention to the cleaning.

Follow all the clearance guidelines and you will be a happy camper.

Old stoves are dirty and not as efficient as the newer ones. I really like some of the old stoves and they are nice to have out in the barn where it is just to take the chill off for short periods of time while you work on something. For the house you want something that you trust and that efficiently burns the wood.

Pellet stoves require electricity and pellets.......